by Matthew, Anrui, Yiwen
一档由几个与互联网一起长大的新生代科技记者主持的播客，致力于站在中美交汇点上，解读全球科技潮流与人文的交织
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11/26/2024
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April 21, 2025
<p>【聊了什么 The What】</p> <p>本期节目迎来了特邀嘉宾——在第一线深入报道多家中资工厂出海故事的记者 Viola Zhou。这次，她刚刚从密歇根小镇Big Rapids回来，探访争议漩涡中的国轩高科（Gotion）电池厂。这个偏僻保守的小镇如何被一座中国电池厂搅动？为什么反对声浪不绝于耳，厂长却受到州政府热情接待？工厂管理者、工人、政客和普通居民，又在这场全球制造的再分配中扮演着什么角色？除了Gotion之外，Viola还分享了她去采访台积电亚利桑那工厂，以及富士康印度工厂的所见所闻。</p> <p>我们从特朗普最新的关税政策谈起，一路聊到中美制造业从双向奔赴走向理想幻灭的故事。美国的“再工业化”离不开中国制造业的反向输出，更是一场效率与价值观的拔河。我们也聊到了这背后美国对“中国效率”的矛盾心理：一边想要复制，一边又排斥它背后的代价。在“Made in America”与“Built by China”的夹缝之间，工厂成了一种文化意象——它既承载希望，也埋藏幻觉。</p> <p>This episode features special guest Viola Zhou, a journalist who’s spent years reporting from the frontlines of Chinese factories going global. Fresh off a trip to Big Rapids, Michigan, she shares what she saw at the center of the Gotion battery plant controversy. How did a small conservative town become a geopolitical flashpoint? Why is factory exec Chuck Thelen eating a battery on camera? Who are the “No Gos” protesting the plant—and why are state officials embracing it? From managers to residents, we unpack the roles each plays in this global industrial drama. Viola also reflects on her visits to TSMC’s Arizona plants and Foxconn’s factories in India. Our conversation begins with Trump’s latest tariffs and traces the fading myth of a U.S.–China manufacturing renaissance. America’s “reindustrialization” increasingly relies on Chinese factories setting up shop on U.S. soil—caught in a deeper tug-of-war between efficiency and values. Somewhere between “Made in America” and “Built by China,” the factory has become a cultural battleground, loaded with both promise and illusion.</p> <p>【时间轴 The When】</p> <ul> <li><p><a href="#t=00:02:16">00:02:16</a> – 吐槽特朗普的关税政策</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:08:44">00:08:44</a> – 美国制造业怎么了？</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:13:04">00:13:04</a> – 初识国轩高科</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:19:11">00:19:11</a> – 美国高管Chuck Thelen“吃电池”名场面背后的故事</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:26:32">00:26:32</a> – Big Rapids的人文和自然环境</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:32:08">00:32:08</a> – 国轩高科在伊利诺伊的另外一个工厂</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:32:51">00:32:51</a> – 文化交融的趣事：《美国工厂》纪录片，年会和厕所风水</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:39:36">00:39:36</a> – 台积电亚利桑那工厂中的工作风格冲突</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:46:51">00:46:51</a> – 印度富士康工厂中的磨合，与20年前深圳的遥相呼应</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:51:35">00:51:35</a> – 综合这些见闻，美国制造到底靠谱吗？</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:57:51">00:57:51</a> – 工厂作为一种文化想象：卓别林，精神小伙，到东华金龙</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=01:03:06">01:03:06</a> – 美国科技界对中国的嫉妒和效率迷恋</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=01:04:37">01:04:37</a> – 全球化幻梦的破灭和对制造业的其他展望</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:02:16">00:02:16</a> – Ranting About Trump’s Tariff Policies</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:08:44">00:08:44</a> – What Happened to American Manufacturing?</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:13:04">00:13:04</a> – First Encounter with Gotion</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:19:11">00:19:11</a> – The Story Behind Chuck Thelen’s “Battery-Eating” Moment</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:26:32">00:26:32</a> – Life and Landscape in Big Rapids</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:32:08">00:32:08</a> – Gotion’s Other Factory in Illinois</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:32:51">00:32:51</a> – Cultural Clashes and Funny Moments: American Factory, Annual Parties, and Bathrooms Feng Shui</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:39:36">00:39:36</a> – Work Culture Clashes at TSMC’s Arizona Plant</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:46:51">00:46:51</a> – Foxconn in India: Culture Shock Echoing Shenzhen Two Decades Ago</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:51:35">00:51:35</a> – After All This, Is “Made in America” Still a Real Thing?</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:57:51">00:57:51</a> – The Factory as Cultural Metaphor: From Chaplin to TikTok</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=01:03:06">01:03:06</a> – China Envy in Silicon Valley: The Myth of Efficiency</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=01:04:37">01:04:37</a> – The Collapse of the Globalization Dream and Rethinking Manufacturing Futures</p> </li> </ul> <p>【我们是谁 Who We Are】</p> <p>新新人类是一档由几个与互联网一起长大的新生代科技记者主持的播客，致力于站在中美交汇点上，解读全球科技潮流与人文的交织。</p> <ul> <li>马修：一个网瘾晚期的全职养猫人</li> <li>杜安蕤：一个想当裁缝的科技/文化撰稿人</li> <li>一闻：一个对地铁比手机更上瘾的记者</li> <li>Viola: 一个徘徊在工厂门口的工厂记者</li> </ul> <p>【拓展链接 The Links】</p> <ul> <li><a href="https://restofworld.org/2025/gotion-ev-battery-us-expansion-backlash-michigan/zh/#translate">一家中国电池厂如何引发密歇根州小镇的政治崩溃 – Viola Zhou</a></li> <li><a href="https://restofworld.org/2023/foxconn-india-iphone-factory/zh/#translate">富士康在印度生产 iPhone 的艰难历程 – Viola Zhou and Nilesh Christopher</a></li> <li><a href="https://restofworld.org/2024/tsmc-arizona-expansion/zh/#translate">台积电在美国沙漠的惨败 – Viola Zhou</a></li> </ul> <p>【支持我们 Please Support Us】 如果喜欢这期节目并愿意支持我们：</p> <ul> <li>海外用户：patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl</li> <li>海内用户：afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod</li> <li>商务合作邮箱：[email protected]</li> </ul> <p>If you like our show and want to support us, please consider the following:</p> <ul> <li>Those Abroad: patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl</li> <li>Those in China: afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod</li> <li>Business Inquiries Email: [email protected]</li> </ul>
April 9, 2025
<p>【聊了什么 The What】</p> <p><del>谁不想有七个男朋友呢？</del> 虽然现实里我们不会也不太想有七个真人伴侣（毕竟同时和七个人聊天，不翻车也会审美疲劳吧），但今天的人工智能已经催生了一系列应用，让我们能在赛博世界里不同性格的AI聊天甚至互动。从大语言模型的语音聊天功能到层出不穷的AI陪伴应用，我们都在深夜点开了哪个聊天机器人的对话框？AI究竟满足了哪些真人咨询师不能满足的需求？从小红书GPT越狱教程到拥有3D身体的「虚拟恋人」、到底是谁在和AI谈甜甜的恋爱啊？</p> <p>在讨论AI如何提供情绪价值的同时，我们也探讨了AI陪伴产品存在的道德风险。明星初创公司character.ai在2024年就面临了多次诉讼，律师指控其聊天机器人在与未成年人的对话中的产生涉及自杀的内容。AI陪伴的边界究竟在哪里？我们在赛博空间中产生的真情实感，应该何去何从？</p> <p>在节目的结尾，我们也邀请神秘嘉宾和大家打了招呼。也和我们一起分享你的AI陪伴故事吧！</p> <p>Who wouldn’t want seven boyfriends? (Just kidding.) While most of us probably wouldn’t—and shouldn’t—have seven real-life partners (I mean, chatting with seven people at once sounds exhausting and like a recipe for disaster), today’s AI tools have given us a way to interact with multiple personalities in the digital world. From voice-enabled large language models to a growing number of AI companionship apps, many of us have found ourselves opening up a chatbot window late at night. What needs are these AI companions fulfilling that real-life therapists or partners might not? From jailbreak tutorials on Xiaohongshu to 3D-bodied “virtual lovers,” who exactly is falling head over heels for AI?</p> <p>While exploring how AI provides emotional value, we also dive into the ethical risks of these companionship products. In 2024, buzzy startup Character.ai faced multiple lawsuits, with lawyers accusing its chatbots of generating suicidal content in conversations with minors. So, where do we draw the line for AI companionship? And what should we make of the genuine feelings we develop in these digital relationships? At the end of the episode, we’re joined by a mystery guest who drops in to say hello. Come share your own AI companionship stories with us, too!</p> <p>【时间轴 The When】</p> <ul> <li><p><a href="#t=00:00:28">00:00:28</a> – 我们开始和 AI 聊天，是出于情绪还是习惯？</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:02:20">00:02:20</a> – ChatGPT 变成数字日记本</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:06:11">00:06:11</a> – ChatGPT 的记忆功能：惊喜、理解，还是侵犯隐私？</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:07:15">00:07:15</a> – AI 和人类咨询师的本质差别在哪？</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:10:48">00:10:48</a> – ChatGPT为什么让人上瘾？知识、语言、共鸣感</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:12:14">00:12:14</a> – DeepSeek vs. ChatGPT：AI 也有性格和“毒舌”？</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:16:17">00:16:17</a> – “午夜狂暴哈士奇狗”：DIY AI男友背后的训练学</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:19:41">00:19:41</a> – AI陪伴产品谱系：情感疏导 vs 娱乐互动</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:23:52">00:23:52</a> – Character AI 是“互动小说”还是“情感寄托”？</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:28:36">00:28:36</a> – 虚拟恋人产品：Replica、EVE 与“说话的猫”想象</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:31:41">00:31:41</a> – 流行文化中的AI亲密关系：从《Her》到《魔幻手机》</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:40:02">00:40:02</a> – “AI变成人”这个叙事，还能打动我们吗？</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:47:01">00:47:01</a> – 女性向 vs 男性向 AI：是陪伴差异，还是性别误解？</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:55:05">00:55:05</a> – 为什么用户反而喜欢“不完美”的AI？</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=01:00:24">01:00:24</a> – AI角色的法律风险、版权挑战与伦理灰区</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:00:28">00:00:28</a> – Why do we start chatting with AI – emotional need or habit?</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:02:20">00:02:20</a> – ChatGPT as a digital diary and emotional outlet</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:06:11">00:06:11</a> – ChatGPT’s memory: helpful insights or privacy red flags?</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:07:15">00:07:15</a> – What human therapists offer that AI can’t</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:10:48">00:10:48</a> – Why ChatGPT feels so real: fluency, feedback, and breadth</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:12:14">00:12:14</a> – Comparing AI personalities: DeepSeek vs. ChatGPT</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:16:17">00:16:17</a> – The “Midnight Berserk Husky” and her AI boyfriend</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:19:41">00:19:41</a> – Two types of AI companions: therapeutic vs. entertaining</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:23:52">00:23:52</a> – Character AI: roleplay, fan fiction, and voice calls</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:28:36">00:28:36</a> – Virtual lovers: Replica, EVE, and the “talking dog” fantasy</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:31:41">00:31:41</a> – From Her to Blade Runner: AI intimacy in pop culture</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:40:02">00:40:02</a> – The fall of the “AI wants to be human” narrative</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:47:01">00:47:01</a> – Gendered AI design: misunderstood desires, different aesthetics</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=00:55:05">00:55:05</a> – Why some users prefer AI glitches and imperfections</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=01:00:24">01:00:24</a> – Legal & ethical grey zones: fan-made bots, IP, and real people</p> </li> </ul> <p><strong>【我们是谁 Who We Are】</strong></p> <p>新新人类是一档由几个与互联网一起长大的新生代科技记者主持的播客，致力于站在中美交汇点上，解读全球科技潮流与人文的交织。</p> <ul> <li>马修：一个网瘾晚期的全职养猫人</li> <li>杜安蕤：一个想当裁缝的科技/文化撰稿人</li> <li>一闻：一个对地铁比手机更上瘾的记者</li> </ul> <p><strong>【拓展链接 The Links】</strong></p> <ul> <li><a href="https://www.technologyreview.com/2025/03/03/1112604/deepseek-fortune-teller-china/">MIT科技评论：DeepSeek如何成为中国年轻人的算命先生</a></li> <li><a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/did-a-chatbot-cause-her-sons-death-megan-garcia-v/id1643307527?i=1000679326458">On with Kara Swisher: 聊天机器人是否导致了她儿子的死亡？Megan Garcia v. Character.AI & Google</a></li> </ul> <p><strong>【支持我们 Please Support Us】</strong></p> <p>如果喜欢这期节目并愿意支持我们：</p> <ul> <li>海外用户：patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl</li> <li>海内用户：afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod</li> <li>商务合作邮箱：[email protected]</li> </ul> <p>If you like our show and want to support us, please consider the following:</p> <ul> <li>Those Abroad: patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl</li> <li>Those in China: afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod</li> <li>Business Inquiries Email: [email protected]</li> </ul>
March 13, 2025
<p><strong>【购票链接 The Link】</strong></p> <p><a href="https://iemshowplace.com/mayday-5525-25/">Mayday 五月天 回到那一天 25週年巡迴演唱會</a></p> <p><strong>【聊了什么 The What】</strong></p> <p>老司机有多喜欢开车，新手司机就有多头疼，然而在人工智能时代，这些考量好像都要翻篇了。这一期新新人类播客，我们聊了聊自动驾驶，从Waymo在旧金山停车场半夜鸣笛开会，到Cruise的高楼起了又塌，自动驾驶从科幻照进现实的路比过山车还要此起彼伏。</p> <p>这一期主播安蕤请假，代班的嘉宾是曾在某自动驾驶企业工作过的托尼。托尼给我们分享了他的行业内部视角和丰富的无人驾驶出租车乘坐经验，最关键的是，他提出来一个至关重要的问题： 为什么人类司机可以毫无心理负担地别车“苕萝卜”，是人性的扭曲还是道德的沦丧？</p> <p>Some people love driving; others find it a nightmare. But in the age of AI, that whole debate might soon be irrelevant. In this episode of Pixel Perfect, we dive into the world of autonomous driving. From Waymo’s cars honking at each other in a San Francisco parking lot at midnight to Cruise’s meteoric rise and equally dramatic crash, the journey of autonomous driving tech has been nothing short of a rollercoaster.</p> <p>Our usual host, Anrui, is on leave this episode, so stepping in is guest host Tony, who has firsthand experience working at a self-driving company. Not only does he bring an insider’s perspective and a wealth of robotaxi ride stories, but he also asks the million-dollar question: Why do human drivers feel zero guilt when aggressively cutting off robotaxis on the road?</p> <p><strong>【时间轴 The When】</strong></p> <ul> <li><p><a href="#t=06:38">06:38</a> 在美国坐无人车是为了体验新奇感而付费</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=20:15">20:15</a> 自动驾驶开车太有素质了，人类司机比不了</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=30:03">30:03</a> 硅谷明星 Cruise: 飞得有多高摔得就有多惨</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=43:54">43:54</a> 无人车应该配备远程操控安全员吗？中美两国有不同的态度</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=49:02">49:02</a> 特斯拉FSD体验越来越顺滑了，但司机还是不能分心</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=59:36">59:36</a> 人工智能技术的标志性应用是无人驾驶还是 ChatGPT</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=06:38">06:38</a> Paying a premium for experiencing the future</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=20:15">20:15</a> Robotaxies are too polite—human drivers are mean</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=30:03">30:03</a> The rise and fall of Silicon Valley darling Cruise</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=43:54">43:54</a> Should self-driving cars have remote safety operators? The US and China disagree.</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=49:02">49:02</a> Tesla’s FSD is getting smoother; That’s no excuse for drivers to get distracted.</p> </li> <li><p><a href="#t=59:36">59:36</a> Self-driving cars vs. ChatGPT, who’s the real future of AI?</p> </li> </ul> <p><strong>【我们是谁 Who We Are】</strong> 新新人类是一档由几个与互联网一起长大的新生代科技记者主持的播客，致力于站在中美交汇点上，解读全球科技潮流与人文的交织。</p> <ul> <li>马修：一个网瘾晚期的全职养猫人</li> <li>一闻：一个对地铁比手机更上瘾的记者</li> <li>托尼：一个管着8个AI牛马的赛博包工头</li> </ul> <p><strong>【拓展链接 The Links】</strong></p> <ul> <li><a href="https://sfstandard.com/2023/08/11/san-francisco-robotaxi-cruise-debauchery/">嗯，这不是无人驾驶出租车应该被使用的方式……</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-10-06/even-after-100-billion-self-driving-cars-are-going-nowhere">《彭博周刊》2022年报道：烧了一千亿美金，自动驾驶还是开进了死胡同</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/technology/cruise-general-motors-self-driving-cars.html">《NYT》2023年报道: Cruise 扩张激进、结果难看</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2024/10/17/waymo-timeline-also-ranks-all-robotaxi-players-with-tesla-in-last/%20">《福布斯》2024年报道：以自动驾驶的里程碑来衡量哪家公司是行业领导者</a></li> </ul> <p><strong>【支持我们 Please Support Us】</strong></p> <p>如果喜欢这期节目并愿意支持我们：</p> <ul> <li>海外用户：patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl</li> <li>海内用户：afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod</li> <li>商务合作邮箱：[email protected]</li> </ul> <p>If you like our show and want to support us, please consider the following:</p> <ul> <li>Those Abroad: patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl</li> <li>Those in China: afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod</li> <li>Business Inquiries Email: [email protected]</li> </ul>
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